♪ ♪ ♪ imus in the morning ♪ >> what is it with the super

rich? why do they always want you to pay more? good morning, everyone, warren buffett, george soros, yes, they're at it again. they want the estate tax to bite really hard. they want a much higher death tax and both are worth tens of billions and both have plans to avoid the tax they want to increase for everyone else. both are obama supporters. however, gas prices down again. we're close to breaking below 3.30 a gallon in some areas, it's 2.99. ben is likely to keep on printing and the president likely to keep on spending. let's ignore the run-up in debt and watch the stock market rally. that's what's happening. as "varney & company" is to begin. and of course, we're going to talk about this. >>

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. stuart: north korea launches a long range missile and says it was a successful launch and traveled hundreds of miles. here is a concern that north korea could put a nuke on top of one of them. and it's not going over well with the rest the world, including the u.s. and china. now we have some of the richest people in the world and they want the government to make more of your money. warren buffett, george soros, bill gates' dad they want the estate tax to go up and say the rate should start at 45% and go up from there. and millions would qualify to pay, but buffett and soros have an estate plan to avoid much of that tax. i'm quoting now, an estate tax with these guidelines to reduce the deficit and fund vital

services and paid by only 10% of the estate. work your whole life and half of it goes to the children and half to the government and of course it's already been taxed when you earned it in the first place, is that fair? we're dealing with that today. i'm waiting for my special dividend from microsoft, but the company i own shares in has ramped up production of its new surface tablet. maybe that will help the stock. are you listening, steve ballmer? nicole, pre-market, where is the stock? >> stuart, you're making me laugh already and the show has barely begun. you're waiting for your special dividend? clamoring? okay, fine. you may have heard a shriek and a cheer out of the green room earlier this morning when i was getting my makeup done when i saw the headline that microsoft is ramping up production of the surface tablet in order to get it out to third party retailers. here is a look at the stock, it's going to have an up arrow, stuart. >> yeah, i mean, look, out of call of this, they said nothing

about a special dividend. let's get that clear. and looks like it's going to be up in the early going, i live in hope, nicole, more proof that the california is the formerly golden state. and tens of thousands leaving and is mike reagan ready to join them in the mass exodus. make it with them. just look at this. there's still room in my house for you in new jersey, okay? >> see you on the 7th.

>> stocks will be higher when trading begins at 12:15 eastern time. right around noon time today we're going to get the official word from the federal reserve. is ben going to print a ton more money or not. odds are the answer is yes. he's going to keep on printing and if president obama keeps spending and he will, it looks like a nice stock market rally on our hands and by the way, the dow is already around 13250 headed north by the looks of it. in the early going the dow jones industrials have opened higher. a big name you know, costco, better than expected profit. let's kick it off. where is the stock? >> a winner is a winner, up .8%

and it's a winner because how with numbers beat the street. a couple of things when you delve into the wholesale retailer and a 30% rise in quarterly profit and this did beat the expectations and the comp sales are on the rise and their membership. maybe who goes to costco, the revenue also rose over 14% to 511 million dollars. so, pretty good. >> and they are paying that special dividend. are they not? >> that's right. and the rich paying the rich so they can avoid the rich tax. i'm not going to start. the average up 27. drive by a gas station and you'll like what you see. the national average for regular down another penny and 3.31 a the price. diesel. 3.97. down, yes, but still the highest ever price for early december. we've got new york state at the highest of the continental u.s. and missouri is the lowest.

3.01. missouri has the only major city we found with the average price of regular we called a two handle. and in the next hour, the gas buddy joins us and where you can find the cheapest gas in your area. and 10:45. new figures from the u.s. census bureau shows about 100,000 more people left california than moved in. that's a net out migration in 2011. shockingly enough, mike reagan was not one of them. he joins us now bright and early from los angeles. thank you for getting up so early in los angeles, we appreciate it, mike. now-- >> you've got it. thank you very much. stuart: i thought i'd get you out, sorry about that. why are all of these people leaving? conventional wisdom has it, it's taxes, taxes, taxes. is it something more? >> how about lack the education? the school system used to be

number one is now 49th in the country and taxes another reason for it, cost of living another reason for it and no vision into the future that's going to get better and somebody said in california the houses are free. and the weather is what costs you money. and people came to a point saying, hey, maybe the weather isn't worth the money anymore and as companies leave, about 17 a month, stuart, are leaving the state of california, but it's not just the companies moving. when they leave, they take the work force with them to the state that they move to. >> yeah, that's a good question. and we know that the raw number is 100,000, net migrating out of california. do you know who those people are? i mean, you've got an extra 100,000 leaving. i don't know who those people are. >> well, those people are actually the people who used to be here in california and made a living, paid taxes and what have you. it's the tax base that's leaving the state of california and also the youth groups leaving, the young people, middle class

people who can't find a job and have no reason to think they're going to find a job in the future so they're chasing jobs, whether it's to texas, arizona, oregon, wherever it might be, they're chasing jobs because there aren't any jobs in the state of california, remember, now, here. you know, as you go up the food chain of making money, your taxes start to go up. by the way, california fell off the fiscal cliff. i don't know what shall is talking about. 14.3% if you make the millionaires new price range of $250,000, so, people are leaving. talk to a surgeon the other day, closed up shop, sold his house and is leasing a home in las vegas. he says he couldn't take it anymore. stuart: but this is a historic reversal. look i've been in america 40 years and started out in san francisco 40 years ago and back in those days, there was always a net migration into california, significant numbers.

california gained tens of millions of people over my time in america, but that just recently has been completely reversed. now there's a net leaving of people. and that's historic in america, that's historic. >> it is historic. it is historic because you come here, as i said for the weather, but that's it anymore and there's no promise of a future. don't promise that you're going to be able to put down your stake and really do something with it. look at the head of facebook, one of the partners left not only the state of california, left the united states of america because of the taxes going on in this state and in the united states of america itself. so, again, there's no incentive to stay in the state because you were so punished, if in fact you do have the state. if you're a young couple trying to raise a family into the public school system and the public school system is in the tank and there's more kids dropping out than dropping in and so if you want to raise your

family, this is not the place to do it anymore. >> no, no. >> mike i'm sorry of' got to leave you, mike reagan, always a pleasure. thanks very much indeed. let's go to nicole, breaking news on berkshire? >> they're, i just came back from the post every there at barclays where they traded berkshire a and b shares and huge crowds are halted for news pending, so we'll continue to follow this. they haven't opened today. obviously the orders came in and they are pair them off and wait

and see what the news is. we'll keep you posted on that one. >> i want to go back to mike reagan. look, having got you out of bed so early in the morning, nows' gone. ocean, a oh, and i was going to say san francisco moving there as a young married man, my, what a place. and now update you on gherard depardu. and not only taxes on millionaires is driving him out of france, there's a capital gains tax coming into france and none of which he'll face in his new home country, belgium. the prime minister is calling depardu, who left france along with others, he says he's a greedy guy. leaving france to become richer,

how dare they, depardu. and new at ten demonstrators in michigan should take note. earlier this year, indiana approved right to work laws. what secretary is the result? i'll tell you, more jobs. at the top of the hour how many more jobs that state will already have added. it's the time when i tell you that time is money and so in 30 seconds, here is what else we've got for you. just how many people are offended when someone wishes them a merry christmas, i'm going to find out. i'll say that to the head of the american atheists, chrysler workers caught on camera drinking and smoking pot get their jobs back. we'll talk to the reporter who broke the story two years ago. how many gun stores are there in america? how many grocery stores are there? the comparative numbers my surprise you. we've got a lot of opinions coming in to us on "varney & company" and we want to keep it flowing. varney@foxbusiness.com is how

you reach us. i've got seven early movers for you, high profits, but less money coming in in the packaging company, greece it's called. what's with the stock? it's up about 4%. the rare earth mining company molycorp ousted its chief executive officer. it's down a little. profits disappointing seismic equipment maker geospace, down and dupont buying back a billion dollars worth of its stock and it's up just a little. health insurer aetna expects higher profits next year, it's up. and microsoft has wrapped up production of its new surface tablet and it, too, moving higher in the early going, i own some microsoft stock. netflix says it needs many more subscribers to be profitable. nonetheless it's up. dow industrials are up 37. and news from berkshire hathaway coming in and it's-- okay, they've bought back 9200

of their class a shares from the estate of one of their shareholders. so they bought back 9200 shares there, the class a stock. that was the news, part of the news on which the halting of berkshire hathaway was based. okay? when they start trading again, nell pretty soon, we'll get a quote for you on that. speaking of berkshire hathaway, the super rich, they say tax the super rich. warren buffett joins soros calling for higher taxes, are they guilty about their success? dr. keith ablow on the psychology of the super rich. he's next. ♪ >> wait a second, wait a second. what exactly -- am i hearing it right? i believe it's santa baby, by madonna. while we watch warren harding and his quote about capitalism lives here and government in

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you'll also get a free informational dvd and brochure. why wait? hear today what a little lyric cacan do for you. lyric from phonak. life is on. >> i'm on a gain for the dow when we start our wednesday morning, just shy of 13,300. now this. warren buffett and george soros want congress to raise the estate tax. what is it with the superrich guys? they push for higher taxes that they don't pay. perhaps they feel guilty about their wealth? joining us now is dr. keith ablow, fox news medical a-team. we always liked dr. ablow on the show because he's an original thinker and delivers originality, we like that and appreciate that. i'm not being-- >> don't study much. >> so it has to be original. stuart: just off the top of your ahead. >> creative, haven't listened to

anyone. stuart: they're superrich and feel guilty about it. >> in the definition of these men they feel guilt, they like to claim they're for the common man. never mind that they amassed huge fortunes you and i don't imagine for our own lives. i think there's something else that's strategic, they're playing both ends against the middle. don't hate us, in other words, there's so much wealth there that certainly they can afford the additional fees if they're going to pay them at all and they probably won't, but what a great defense to be able to say, well, don't be angry with us, we've been saying to tax wealthy people. it's like-- >> deflecting anger at them. >> what a royal position to be in. it's an incredibly narcissistic and unasailable throne to which to ascend. i have mine, fellow like you, you have six kids. stuart: i do. >> earned your money, hopes to send, you know, your kids and

grandkids to great schools. they're not your friends. they think you're taking advantage of other people or is it, as i would contend, that they're strategicically setting themselves so far apart that they're saying, everybody else fight with yourselves. we're going to stay over here in our very special club and claim that we care about the poor. stuart: well, i've got to say that i personally, my anger has not been deflected by what they're saying. in fact, my anger has been stoked. >> should be. stuart: i made every penny that i've got and as you say i've got six children, seven grandchildren. what is it with the guys who want to put their hand in-- the government's hand into my estate and deny my children the right to get what i have worked for? because i'm mad as hell about it and anger on my part okay? analyze. >> it's better than okay. because you haven't been put to sleep and the thing that these people have in common with our

president is the centralization of power. the threat to them is lots of folks like you or like me having some financial wherewithal and some decision making power. if it's all in the hands of the government or the government in concert with a few superwealthy people, well, then power is centralized the rest of the folks are disempowered and you should be angry, i did this with my autonomy and my free will, why am i being told it's bad? they don't want you to feel powerful. stuart: the other argument they've used, actually a european argument. they say look, we're in america, we do not want to create a european style aristocracy and amass wealth like the dukes and duchesses or britain, that's their argument. we're different in america, we don't want to be like them, what

do you make of that. >> i call it the office of what you believe. they are the aristocracy. they are the royals and they don't much like the notion that you might creep up, creep up upon them, right. stuart: and so. >> you could pass along to the generation some of your hard work and somebody who you love would have a nest egg with which to build more? wait, i can feel him. he's on floor three and i'm on ten. they don't like that, get back to floor one with the rest of you. stuart: excellent. dr. keith ablow, original as ever. appreciate it it. and time for your gold report. where are we this morning? the dow sup, stocks are up, oil is up and yes, gold is up. 1719 per ounce, even senate democrats are saying hold off on some rules for obamacare. they're worried about granny's hip. maybe they should have read the bill before passing it. we're going to play it again. remember this? >> but we have to pass the bill

so you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy.

>> we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it away from the fog of the controversy. stuart: oh, it looks like some democrats in the senate just got around to reading the bill. they don't like it, want to stop at least part of it. 17 democrats and incoming senator elect elizabeth warren sending a letter to harry reid they want to delay the implementation of the tax on medical devices. kirsten powers is here, ladies and gentlemen, what do you think of this. >> you're not going to make me defend this. stuart: defend what, the medical device tax or the senate? >> i think this is kind of the outrageous behavior on parts of the democrats. they should have known this was in the bill, right theoretically? >> i thought you'd shifted a little bit to the right. >> i've always been this way i've always been fair and look, i think that, i don't think they should be allowed to do this. if you're going to vote for

obamacare and it does have taxes that are attached to it, part of the deal, you can't carve it out to protect your constituents. stuart: especially three weeks before. >> comes up at the election. stuart: it's a powerful group, 17 senate democrats that's a big churni chunk of the democrats-- >> won't be surprised if they get their way. you can't determine taxes and carve out for your powerful constituents to help you get elected. stuart: suppose it is delayed or abolished. suppose its for a second. where are we going to get the 29 billion dollars that was going to flow into the treasury from the medical device tax? >> it shouldn't be though, that's the point, i think they need to be health accountable. you're probably the only person talking about it and i mean, truly like is the new york times covering this? i don't know.

they need to be held accountable for it and it means we can't pass a bill and include this as part of the funding and then, then just, 'cause let's, you know, if it was just republicans that were complaining, do you think he would do anything about it. stuart: absolutely not. >> right. stuart: if push comes to shove do you think it gets abolished, or delayed. >> yes. stuart: you do. >> yes. stuart: very powerful group there. stay with us, kirsten for the entire next hour, lucky, lucky you. new at 10, governor mitch daniels, announces new jobs in his state from nine different companies and maybe michigan endured scenes like this to become like indiana. we're talking about that next hour. take a look at this, an ad from an atheist group going up in midtown manhattan, new york city. we'll talk to the man behind that ad and i'll wish him a merry christmas. will he be offended? all that coming up next.

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stuart: new at 10:00, indiana announces more than 250 -- that would be 2,500 new jobs from nine different companies. private sector job creation in a right to work state. maybe that's what they are looking for in michigan, where anti-rights to work protests

turned violent at the statehouse yesterday. someone got punched. we will talk all about that in one minute from now. also here's what we've got otherwise, the latest controversial ad from an atheist group posted on a billboard in middle of new york city. is this kind of insult really necessary? and will the man responsible for this ad be offended when i wish him merry christmas? found in a few minutes. -- find out in a few minutes. he's sitting right next to me. check the big board please, up just 33 points, 12,281 is where we are. now, here is our company: fox news contributor kirsten powers has graciously said she will be with us for the entire hour. and nicole petallides is on the floor of the new york stock exchange. let's get right to her with indiana. let's get right to kirsten. another right to work state in the midwest seeing an increase in business. governor mitch daniels announcing nine companies moving to that state. 2500 jobs created. kirsten, you're i would say a

moderate democrat. have you any comment on indiana becoming right to work and clearly attracting a lot of jobs? >> well, there's so many different studies on this, and i feel like each side always comes up with a study that supports their, you know, what they think, so, you know, mitch daniels is going to claim that people are going to come there because of right to work. stuart: is it a valid claim? >> to me honestly it is very unclear because there are so many different studies. one thing that is clear and i think everybody can agree on is that what ends up happening if you're concerned about redistribution of wealth, it actually helps the business owners make more money and the workers tend to make less money. if that something that concerns you, which it does concern me, then it raises some valid questions about right to work states. stuart: but if indiana had been a state which forces union dues to be paid by members, nonmembers, if it were the old line state, i don't think you could say it would get these kind of jobs and they are new

high-tech jobs. >> but do we know that? i'm a little skeptical about that. only 7% of the country is even unionized anymore. i'm a little skeptical that people are not going somewhere because of that. stuart: why wouldn't toyota when it starts a new plant in america or bmw or mercedes or honda, they have all have plants in america, and they tend to go to right to work states like indiana. >> because i think if you give a business owner the opportunity to not have to deal with a union, they will probably choose that because they don't want -- but at the same time, i'm not sure that -- you know, there are certain places that people are going to go because there are good workers. look, i don't think people should be forced to pay dues. i do have a problem with that. stuart: that's what the michigan rule is all about. >> that's what it is about. we need to find another way to address the problem of the fact that the wages are dropping for people and they don't have enough money to support their families. stuart: not going to box you into a corner, but watch this -- [laughter] stuart: violent confrontations

in michigan yesterday. huge crowds filling the state capitol. protesters, they tore down a conservative group's tent. they punched a fox news contributor in the face. law makers did approve the right to work bill that protects non-union workers from having to pay union dues. just watch this for a second. stuart: now the white house has not yet distanced itself from that kind of vvolence. listen to this from jay carney yesterday. >> the president believes in, you know, debate that's, you know, civil. i haven't seen those comments and i'm not sure they mean what some would interpret them to mean. i haven't seen them. you've heard the president talk about his views. he has also opposed so called right to work laws. as he said those laws are generally political and not economic. they are more about the right to

earn less pay than they are, you know, helpful to our economy. and he presented those views yesterday in michigan. stuart: all right. kirsten, i want to make three points. i think the president should have made a clear distance between himself, the administration, and what happened on the streets there. second point, i think the unions have really lost a big one in michigan, and number three, i don't think you should ever take your politics into the street and get into violent confrontations, no matter which side of the aisle you are on. >> well, i mean of course. who is going to disagree with that? i think what jay carney was referring to there was a comment by one of the leaders on the pro-union side saying there will be blood in the streets and he was asked to condemn that and why can you not condemn that? that doesn't make any sense. they clearly are afraid of upsetting the unions. so i think that kind of behavior absolutely should be condemned. i mean, i can't disagree with that. stuart: i think the events over the last couple of days in michigan are a clear loss for

the unions. that's the way i would sum up the whole thing. >> sure, but i think the unions, the winds are against them, so i think this is not helpful to their situation. stuart: you see, you're shifting. >> that doesn't mean i think they should be. stuart: constantly on shifting ground kirsten powers. what a pleasure it is to have you on the program. by the way everyone we were the first national broadcast program to bring you the story, chrysler workers caught during their lunch break drinking smoking pot. briefly, remember this. >> this behavior during your break is against chrysler's policy. these guys aren't so wreckless as to do it in a public park. -- reckless as to do it in a public park. no, this is a private property. a private lot. and get this, it's maintained by their union the united auto worker. stuart: those same workers got their jobs back. it is all about union power obviously. at 10:35 this morning, we are

bring to you the reporter. wjbk's reporter, he's going to join us. here's the question i want to answer, will those chrysler workers end up getting two years worth of back-pay? he's going to answer the question coming up. bottom of the hour, this program today. let's get to nicole, eli lilly got news on an alzheimer's drug. i'm interested there. nicole: this is a big one. this is a drug that could achieve multibillion dollars annual sales if it actually reaches the market. but eli lilly has decided to put it through is a few more tests -- to put it through a few more tests before they actually seek regulatory approval. that's really a setback, more money, not getting to the market. they may seek approval outside the u.s. the alzheimer's drug put on hold for a moment, they can do more testing to prove that this is the right drug. stuart: thank you very much nicole. over the weekend i gave money to the salvation army, twice. i put a dollar in the bucket, you know, and the bell ringer

said happy holidays. now, the salvation army is a christian charity, so why not say merry christmas. i was told they don't want to offend anyone. why would anyone be offended by merry christmas? even if they don't celebrate it. come on. joining us now is the president of american atheist. david, welcome back. good to have you. >> thank you very much for having me back on the show. stuart: merry christmas, david. >> happy holidays stuart. stuart: are you offended? >> a little bit. stuart: wait a minute. you're a big guy, 6 foot tall, 200 pounds. are you offended? you're offended. come on. >> as you know, i don't celebrate the holiday and you say merry christmas. of course it is meant to offend. stuart: that was a total stranger. full of goodwill. merry christmas everyone. are you offended? >> a little, i will tell you why. stuart: how can you possibly be offended?

merry christmas. >> let me explain. stuart: go. >> it presumes christianity, and that's why the salvation army has changed their tune. this christian organization has realized that -- stuart: does nothing of the sort. >> it does. christian organization has realized that inclusiveness is good ethics and good business, and saying happy holidays without the presumption of christianity includes the jews, the muslims, the atheists -- atheists who donate to their cause. it's a good idea and good ethics. stuart: a man like you couldn't possibly be offended by the mere words. let me move on to point number two. you are a lawyer i believe? >> no. stuart: the atheist organization employs a lot of lawyers don't you? >> yes we do. we demand equality. stuart: you know perfectly well they don't have the money to defend themselves so they have

to save. >> they should obey the law. they have to obey the law. stuart: they have to cave. you apply your legal muscle and your financial -- this is a financial program. you use your financial muscle to make people -- to force people to cave. >> you know what? stuart: force people to cave. >> we are going to continue to do that, stuart, because the u.s. government is required to remain religiously neutral. it is not cool for them to take sides on the religious debate. stuart: if one person objects and says i'm offended by that cross, we must all change? >> it is not about being offended. it is about equal representation from the government and we will demand that, yes. stuart: can i see that billboard again? just put it up for me. >> go ahead. stuart: do you know how insulting that is? >> what's insulting about this billboard? stuart: it is. you're calling people of faith, having faith in a myth, you're looking down on them, insulting

them. >> the last billboard we put up called all religion scams. this billboaad says you know what? if you think god is a myth, you can have a happy holiday anyway. stuart: why did you deliberately -- [talking over each other]. stuart: why do you deliberately insult millions? i've had my say. kirsten powers is here. >> do i get to answer any of your questions? stuart: no you don't. >> i will just sit here. >> you were just offended by him saying that, but then you put that billboard up. you don't think that's offensive to people? >> i'm not concerned about offense. he asked me if i was offended and i answered him. there are a lot of christian billboards up there that are offensive to atheists. they have every right to be up. we have a right to put up our views as well. our view is that if you're not religious, you can still have a grand old holiday season. keep the merry, dump the myth, have a party. you don't need god.

>> do you ads against ramadan? >> we have put up billboards in arabic. >> but against muslim holidays, not against christian holidays? >> not yet. >> why not? >> because they are not national holidays and they are not holiday seasons. the problem with christmas specifically -- stuart: are you worried about what they might do to you? >> no. i did an anti-jewish billboard. >> it's an anti-christian thing. >> christianity -- let me speak, please, folks. christianity feels like it owns the season. it does not -- [laughter] >> it's christmas. >> christmas came after the solstice. there's also kwanzaa and hanukkah. christianity has to be equal to everybody else. that's why you feel like you are being attacked all the time because you have been put on the pedestal. stuart: you really are beginning

to look offended. >> i'm offended because you guys are asking me questions and not answering it. that's disrespectful. stuart: what was the name, madeline murray o'hare? >> founded america atheists. we should try not to offend people. that doesn't mean -- stuart: i got to you. >> of course you did. you're not letting me speak and it does get to me. stuart: you offended me with your billboard. one last question. >> yeah, go ahead. stuart: is it true that madeline murray o'hare has a tombstone somewhere and on it is wriiten atheist, all dressed up and nowhere to go. is that true? >> no, i don't believe that's true.

stuart: i thought not. >> i want to wish you and everybody a happy holidays. you're not an atheist, be out to -- be nice to an atheist near you. if you are an atheist, come out to your family, they need to know who you are. >> thank you very much. stuart: up next, judge napolitano. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have oblations. cute obligations, but obligatio. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. i have oblations. cute owhat i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core

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stuart: wal-mart stock is down today. interesting story here. india launching an official probe into wal-mart's lobbying activities. wal-mart pay 25 million dollars in u.s. lawmakers in exchange for getting help in india, that would be illeg-- [inaudible] -- there's an investigation on that. coin star is officially rolling out a streaming movie service, could be a competitor to netflix. coin star is up. netflix stock not affected by the news which had been long expected. it is up 2%. this afternoon the fed is going to announce we think officially more money printing. the market seems to like that. the judge absolutely hates it.

he will join us in 90 seconds.

stuart: a lot of comments about the debate we just had with the atheist. here's some of what you are saying on our facebook page.

stuart: we have broad opinions on facebook. you better join us. president obama wants to keep on spending money. the national debt will keep on rising. judge andrew napolitano is joining us. he is the author of the new book, it is called "theodore and woodrow" that is not the full title. >> what page are you mentioned? stuart: i'm on page 278. is kirsten powers in the book? >> how come i'm not in the book? >> in my heart. >> ahh. stuart: you are so cute. how do you feel about this? we are going to raise taxes. we are going to keep on spending and we're going to ignore the debt. to me this goes beyond being an

economic question. to me it's a moral question. >> it absolutely is a moral question. i don't know what the fed is going to announce today. none of us does. i don't know what the federal government is going to do with it. but if the fed is going to create money and put that money into the accounts of member banks, and those banks are going to use that money to buy bonds, that is the same thing as the fed sending a wheelbarrow over to the treasury. and when the fed does that, and then the president gets that money to spend, it lowers the value of the assets and the cash that we already have. that's your moral argument and i accept and agree. in fact i'm a champion of that argument. and the argument is that that is theft pure and simple. that is the government using its own printing press to reduce the value of everything we own, thereby making it look like it is paying its bills. stuart: that's the libertarian argument. >> i think that's economics 101 argument as well.

stuart: it is. but there's another moral argument -- >> did they not teach that argument at the university of london school of economics? [laughter] stuart: let me introduce to kirsten powers the worst fake english accent on television. >> he's mocking me again. [laughter] stuart: if you just print up a storm, keep on spending and run up the debt to astronomical levels, that's immoral because you're placing an intolerable burden on our children. >> that is also a moral argument. you're spending now and requiring a generation that's yet unborn to pay it back. stuart: yes. >> if i may, theodore and woodrow, woodrow wilson borrowed 100 million dollars to finance world war i. we're still paying interest on that. it's never been paid back. it's been rolled over. that's the way the federal government does its business. it never ever reduces principal. it may pay the principal back,

but it borrows money in order to pay it back. so when obama does that, he will say everybody before me in the 20th century has done it. he's correct. it is no less immoral because others have done it. stuart: i think kirsten is about to say the same thing which i'm about to say which is bill clinton -- . >> how did you know that's what i was thinking? stuart: because you're a clintonite. welcome to the program. you have now been introduced to a debate with an atheist and now the morality of debt. where do you stand on the morality of debt? >> it's very rare that i disagree with my dear friend judge napolitano as you know because i think he's absolutely right. it's very concerning even as you watch the debates that's going

on right now, watching the back and forth between the republicans and democrats. neither wants to put anything substantive on the table in terms of cuts, right? even the republicans who say we are the party of cuts have put this general number but don't want to be specific. >> you know i don't defend the republicans at all. in fact, i have gotten my fingertips burned by attacking them. let me make another moral argument, if i could. how immoral is it for a government to push through legislation in january and then change it in december when the public, entrepreneurs, business people, ordinary folks need to rely on that. the so-called fiscal cliff is legislation the republicans endorsed, the democrats endorsed, the republicans pushed through, the democrats voted for, and the president signed. and this is the law of the land that they wanted. and now 12 months later, they want to change it. who can rely on a government that willy nilly when the wind blows changes the fundamental laws? stuart: ladies and gentlemen,

the libertarian. thank you, judge. >> what a delight to be anywhere with kirsten powers on national television. stuart: isn't she good? [laughter] stuart: all right, eric schmidt, google, bermuda and taxes, my take on the hypocrisy of big business and the obama administration. all of that is next. [ male announcer ] this is amy. amy likes to invest in the market.

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>> so the idea that you could pass a law into the next generation, some of your hard work and somebody who you love would have a nest egg with which to build more? wait, i can feel him. he's on floor 3 and i'm on 10. they don't like that. get back to floor 1 with the rest of the people. stuart: that was in our last hour. dr. keith ablow giving his analysis on the rich after buffett and soros called on congress to increase, make bigger the estate tax. we have another company going to pay an early dividend. it is caterpillar. what's going on, nicole? nicole: it is caterpillar joining over a couple of hundred companies accelerating the dividend payout in order to avoid taxes. we are hearing from the ceo who is talking about the fact that

because of uncertainty in the u.s. tax policy, that we are acting in the interest of our shareholders, and shareholders could save 30 million dollars by this accelerated payout. stuart: still no word from microsoft i take it? nicole: i will be waiting by the phone. we will see if they call. stuart: so am i. i live in hope. nicole thank you very much. here's another example of -- can you really say union outrage? i say yes you can say that word. chrysler workers fired for drinking smoking pot on the job couple of years ago. do you remember that? >> hey, guys. hate to be a buzz kill but shouldn't you guys be building cars? don't you guys work out at the chrysler factory? you know, the government spent a lot of money bailing you guys out. and you're coming outthere on your lunch break drinking like this? stuart: well, now, those chrysler workers got their job back. 10:35 this morning, this program, the reporter who broke that story wbjk's rob wolchek,

he will be with us. suppose you are a very big company doing business all over the world. you make a lot of money. and the owners of the company want to keep it. what do you do? well, you scour the planet for a parking place that lets you keep your profit. here's my take on google and bermuda. the story is this, google funneled nearly 10 billion dollars in to bermuda, where there is no corporate tax. google avoided about 2 billion dollars in worldwide taxes by doing that. by not bringing back specifically to america, they saved a whole lot more. the irony is that eric schmidt was ceo when the money was parked in bermuda, yes the pro-tax, pro-obama eric schmidt avoided the tax that president obama enforces. apart from the obvious hypocrisy, there are two points to be made here. number one, eric schmidt did the right thing for his shareholders. they own the company. they want to share in the money that google makes.

the ceo has the responsibility to act in their best interest. if google had brought the money back here, it would have been taxed at the highest rate in the developed world, 35%, and then if it were paid out in a dividend, the money would be taxed again at a rate that may get up to 43% next year. it's in the interest of the shareholders to park it in bermuda. he did the right thing. second point, is that the president -- the second point is that the president is wrong to insist on keeping this high corporate tax rate. if he were to lower it, significantly, maybe some of that 1.7 trillion dollars that companies keep overseas would come back to stimulate america. but no, president obama is not a tax cutter. here's a suggestion, perhaps our corporate leaders should stop supporting an administration that at heart wants to punish them. copd makes it hard to breathe,

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tax proposal for small farmers but i'm assuming there is not. that would hit you, wouldn't you, if you get a bigger estate tax bite. i can't believe you like this? >> well, no, there's a couple of things -- it's like catch 22. you know what we talked about earlier, in real estate, the government has been spending so much money through the fed throwing dollars at willy-nilly all over the board, our land prices have gone up whether we like it or not. number one. number two, at the same time they are going to make the estate tax go up. so we're now to a point where we planned 20 years ago on how we can make sure that we can keep this in the family. let's remember, it's a small business. it is not a jewelry. it is not a big house on a hill. it's a small business that throws off capital for the family. we're facing a fact here that even though we have planned for it the tax could put us out of business and we may have to get rid of it. stuart: it's 2 million dollars under the buffett soros proposal, and the rate on anything you leave in your estate above that starts at 45%.

that's flat out confiscatory. it would affect almost all family farms, i think. >> if you think what's happened with the fed printing money, look at a chart of land prices. it is a double-whammy. the land prices are on a rocket shot. at the same time taxes are being raised. it is going to put a lot of families out of business. these aren't luxuries. this isn't a big boat or a house out in zurich you are handing down to your family heirs, this is a small business. can you imagine small businesses being taxed out of their business because of the estate tax and nobody gets to keep it in the family going forward? >> no, i can't imagine that. scott, you express it very well. thanks very much indeed. kirsten powers has been migrating to the very center of the political spectrum. where do you stand on 2 million dollars exclusion and 45% rate on the death tax? >> where would you like me to

stand? stuart: in the realm of reality, can you do that? >> i think look, a lot of democrats actually are opposed to any kind of -- stuart: why are you looking at -- >> why are you looking at me so skeptical? we do have to come up with money somewhere, and i know that conservatives argue often that the revenue raising doesn't -- it's minuscule. we do have to do some revenue raising and cuts. i think economists would say we've got to do both revenue raising and cuts. i think because of that, you probably are going to have to have the estate tax -- stuart: are call -- are you done? kirsten, it's great to have you

on the show. the chrysler workers got their jobs back. chrysler rehired the workers that were fired. let's bring in the investigative reporter that broke the story two years ago. he's been following it through. my obvious question is these guys have got their jobs back. do you get back-pay? do you know whether they do or not? >> i do not know whether they do or not. i asked that question. in fact when i talked to the girl from chrysler when i first found out about this on friday that they got their jobs back, i talked to her. i asked her a bunch of questions. i was kind of shocked and flabbergasted even though you had called it, you said they were going to get their jobs back a couple of years ago. you were absolutely right about that, stuart. but anyway, when i talked to her, i hung up the phone and i stopped, thought about it, i said my gosh i've got to find

out if they are getting that back-pay. i called her back and all of a sudden she kind of clammed up and said that it was a personnel matter and she couldn't say if they got back-pay. so i could not tell you if they got back-pay or not. stuart: i would speculate that they did. they got their jobs back because of what's written in the union contract. i don't know what's written in the union contract, but i would presume that if you're reintate -- reinstated from a job from which you have been fired, you get back-pay. that's pure speculation on my part. i haven't read the contract, but that's what i think. >> i would speculate the same thing also with her answer, i would think if there was no back-pay, they would definitely say oh, there was no back-pay because chrysler wants to save a little bit of face here, so that's why i kind of think you are right. stuart: here's another one, who appointed the arbitrator who gave the jobs back to the 13 people who went back to work under the influence of alcohol and marijuana?

who appointed that arbitrator? >> well, i couldn't tell you that. i don't have an answer to that. they have an arbitration process. they have lawyers all involved. you know, this is stuff that i'm not in the loop of so i don't know. you know, i know that a lot of cases have gone before arbitration and they've gone the other way because i've talked to people who have said, you know, i got fired from one of the big three automakers for one thing or another, and i know that the automakers often times win out and the uaw sometimes win out. in this case, even scott garberding from chrysler said this was -- [talking over each other] >> stuart: they got their jobs back because they did what they did on their own time and off company property. i believe that's accurate? >> yeah, i believe so too. it was called off-duty time. apparently they are not paid for lunch. they had their half hour lunch

break where they were off-duty. they went back to work, don't forget. stuart: they went back to work under the influence of what they had done on their own time. >> absolutely. that's chrysler's point. chrysler doesn't want people in the factory working like that. and chrysler absolutely is appalled that they have to hire these guys back. stuart: good example i think we can all agree on this, union power and the power of a union contract. very important stuff. rob wolchek always doing sterling work out there in detroit on this subject in particular. thank you very much indeed for joining us, rob. appreciate it. >> thank you, stuart. stuart: anything to add kirsten powers? >> well, i think this is why unions are sort of on the wane is because this kind of stuff, that people -- they want them to be able to negotiate for good pay for them, but they don't want -- people don't want them protecting people who should be fired. it happens with teachers unions where they protect people who aren't doing a good job. you know, why the union would even do this -- stuart: it's terrible pr for the company.

>> just let it go. stuart: they built cars that my wife and kids are going to be driving around in. >> exactly. stuart: i can't get behind that. i really can't. >> yeah, no. stuart: kirsten thanks a lot. now this, gas prices are falling, but not so fast, they are still at a record high for this time of the year, december. where can you find the cheapest gas as it comes down in price? where's the cheapest? the gas buddy, he will tell us. he's next.

stuart: everyone's waiting for 12:15 eastern time. that's when we find out if ben bernanke is going to keep on printing a ton of money. until then, dead flat for the market. the dow right now is up 9. the fed will make the announcement at 12:15 eastern. eli lilly launching a new trial in its alzheimer's drug. didn't work in two previous attempts. give it one more chance. the stock is down. berkshire hathaway buys back at $131 a share, that's a buyback. caterpillar latest company to move up its dividend payment, pay out on new year's eve instead of next year because of the big tax increase that could be coming next year. says the move is in the best interest of its shareholders. it sure is. we are back in 90 seconds with the gas buddy. gas prices falling steadily, under 3 bucks a gallon in some places. to generate income? th fidelity's neoptions platform, we've completely integrated every step of the process,

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and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit oodsmart.gov/ptend to learn your risk. stuart: another check with nicole because i want to check facebook. the stock is down; correct? nicole: right. it's to the down side. we've been watching facebook obviously under a little bit of pressure. the nasdaq composite is slightly lower as well. stuart: did you just join up on facebook, get your own page, all of a sudden, is that true? nicole: all of a sudden, five years later at fox business, they decide to get with it -- i decide to get with it. i'm trying, stuart. i'm trying. stuart: you join up, you got a facebook page, and down goes the

stock, oh, nicole. nicole: oh no, we have to turn that around. we need some more likes people watching varney & company, check it out. a lot of cool pictures so far. stuart: now you are talking. nicole, thanks very much indeed. the gas price drop, it continues. the national average for a gallon of regular down another penny overnight, 3.30 is the price. diesel coming in at 3.97. -- 3.31 is the price for regular. now joining us is our next guest from gasbuddy.com. tell me where is the cheapest gas in the country? go. >> well, i get to use the word two handle, that's something we haven't brought out since i think midsummer, but $2.82 a gallon in st. louis, missouri today. and st. louis is one of the only cities with an average now of below $3 a gallon. stuart: $2.82, that's one station in st. louis, missouri.

>> there's a couple down, quite a few a stations under $3 a gallon there. st. louis probably enjoying a bit of a party. stuart: yeah. can you tell me why? why st. louis missouri. is it missouri or missouri? which is it? >> well, i say missouri. you may say in new york missouri. stuart: go ahead, tell me why the price is so low in missouri. >> it's down to a 2 handle for two reasons. low gas taxes and proximity to gulf coast refining. so they have two advantages that they have that nobody else really has. stuart: am i right in saying that the trend all across the country is down and quite sharply so? >> i believe so. i think just about every state is looking at pretty nice declines now. the great lakes is dropping very low and they may see a bit of a price spike. that's normal for them. but national average still does

lag last year, so while everybody is feeling all great about gas prices going down, stuart, i'm a little bit of a grinch by telling everybody prices are still higher than last year. stuart: we have talked about this before. we have established a new normal. prices spike, get up to 4 bucks, then they come back down, but they settle higher than where they settled previously. so you've got a new normal which keeps on going up. is that right? >> that's right. the floor is going up and up. and i guess some people are okay with that. a lot of the media calling this a gas price crash. and i'm thinking to myself, are we crazy here? it's 3 bucks a gallon. this is no crash. stuart: i notice your suits are getting more expensive. i guess that's because of the new revenue we're providing for you. is that right, patrick? >> it is actually because of lower gas prices stuart. i can keep more of that money in my wallet. stuart: very good. patrick, thank you very much. >> thanks stuart.

stuart: what do we have more of here in the u.s.? gun dealers or grocery stores? the answer is next. from the best players in history

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stuart: gun sales, booming. record numbers. well, now take a look at this number. according to a new report from abc news, there are more gun dealers in the united states than there are grocery stores.

okay? 51,000, literally gun stores, 36,000 grocery stores. as in supermarkets. okay? that's an extraordinary number. what does middle of the road democrat kirsten powers make of that? i'm astonished actually. i can't believe that number. >> that's because you are british. stuart: i've been here a long time, a long time. [laughter] >> yeah, look, i agree with bob costas about his comments about us having this gun culture. i do think that americans are a little too obsessed with their guns. i grew up in alaska. my father was a gun collector. we probably had 20 guns in in the house that i grew up. i'm not anti-gun. but it's very different in a rural environment to have guns than in an urban environment to have guns. that's where i have the concern. and if you talk to most -- even rudy giuliani -- stuart: here's the question, would you control guns more strictly? >> absolutely. even rudy giuliani when he was mayor would tell you they don't

want handguns in the city and they don't want people to have have semiautomatic weapons, military style weapons because it harms the police officers. i do think in urban environments you need to have really strict limitations. stuart: i come from england; right? property crimes, burglaries breaking and entering five times higher in england than in america because in america you break into somebody's house, you can get your head blown off, that's not true in england. >> if you're caught with a gun on a street, i would have very strict laws against that. you can have a gun in your house. stuart: that's interesting. the highlight reel everyone. it's coming up next.

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[ laughter ] >> inclusiveness is good ethics and good business. >> happy holidays. >> it is not cool for them to take sides. >> and then you put that billboard of. stuart: i would love to do more on this. there is one other subject we have to raise on varney & company in the last minute of the show. the flu shot. i do not want to get the flu shot. i do not want to be sucked into the medical world. kirsten powers is here. i think she will disagree with me. >> first question is, what does your wife think? stuart: she is along with me. >> number one rule, do what your wife says. i never got the flu shot and one year i got so sick i was almost hospitalized. i got pneumonia and